Tell me again: Why is it that you didnt move to Estancia Cafayate in the Province of Salta? | General Discussion Table | FORUMS
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7:13 pm
August 25, 2010
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Fernando,
I want to congratulate again personally you on your move and restate my best wishes for you and your family.
I don't know if anyone else sent you this but thought you'd find it interesting. I want to tell you that, despite some difference of opinion with some social/religious stuff, I would absolutely rather have you as a neighbor and friend than these guys, who live in another reality. Polo-playing elite. I get their free newsletter to see how they think.
Steve
Hi Steve, I got lots of emails like yours, thanks for letting me know about this.
In case you have no idea of whats going on, these guys are pissed with me:
http://www.caseyresearch.com/c…..-argentina
Because of this article I wrote some time ago:
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/201…..ntina.html
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/201…..ng-in.html
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/201…..ntina.html
Basically it comes down to this: These people are selling property in a country club in an Argentine province called Salta, pitching it as a high society, wine sipping, polo playing paradise, and selling houses there for exorbitant prices. I simply answered some questions readers sent me, and very kindly explained why putting that kind of money in such a far away place, in a dirt poor province, within an already unstable third world country with a president similar to Chavez was the most stupid thing I’ve head in the last decade. It seems that some people didn’t like my opinion on the matter, specifically those trying to sell property there.
This may have caused them to lose a couple sales. At least two that I know of because the potential buyers contacted me and I told them they would be idiots if they bought into this BS. Yes, I used those exact same words.
Isnt it wonderful how the “Casey Research Group “concludes that the best thing for you is to buy property from Doug Casey in crappy poor Argentina?. JAJAJAJAA!!!!
You’d think that being rich and loving a wine sipping, golf playing sophisticated lifestyle you’d be better off in Napa Valley or something, but no, the best thing for you is to go to the middle of nowhere Argentina and then go from there to a middle of nowhere province where land used to sell for a dollar a square mile, that is until good ol’ Doug bought it and his research now shows that its in your best interest to pay 300.000 a pop for a place in his Estancia… in one of the poorest provinces of Argentina… in the middle of the desert, where not a blade of grass would survive without artificial irrigation. JA!! Amazing what you can achieve with research!
Here at the “FerFAL Anti-BS Foundation”, we’ve done some research of our own and came to the following conclusions:
Health and Education
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/trave…../argentina
http://www.mdtravelhealth.com/…..entina.php
Wow! So one of the cool things about Salta is that you need to get shots for Dengue, Malaria and Yellow fever. That sounds like fun! Its of notice that in my +30 years of living in Buenos Aires yellow fever shots where never recommended unless you traveled to these poor, far away provinces. Why would that be? Because Buenos Aires sucks while Salta is the best place in the planet for rich wine drinking golf playing billionaires..hmm… or maybe is its because Salta is a poor province in the middle of nowhere?… mmm.. . And you know whats additional fun factor Dengue, a deadly disease spread by a mosquito. That theres billions of those little rascals flying around the Super Rich guy retreat is just a bonus!! Unlike Buenos Aires where during dengue season you see the trucks driving around fumigating to kill them and stop the disease.
But hey, if you’re an old snobby fart that feels better surrounding yourself by some of the most awful misery in South America while you sip wine, there’s even better news: You’ll die very, very fast!! Who want to retire to Boca or spend your golden years skiing in Beaver Creek like those other unoriginal rich old farts? Go to better life like Indiana Jones would: Die of easily curable diseases in a poor crappy hospital of Salta! You want an even cooler death? Suffer a stroke in Casey’s Estancia Cafayate… and require a 4 hour drive, then a 2 hour plane trip to Buenos Aires to get serious medical attention! Now isn’t that fun? Of course it is!
Who wants to live past their 66 years? No one moving to Salta for sure! Oh, you didn’t know? See, one of the differences between living in Buenos Aires and living in Salta, is that the life expectancy for males in Buenos Aires is 69,17, while in Salta its 66,17!!!! How Cool is that?! You get to kick the bucket while in your prime years, no one wants to be remembered like an old wrinkly man, rich or not. ;-) Why would you want to live in Buenos Aires and live a measly 4 years more of life?
Stupid me, here I am in a place where my life expectancy is +80. Boooorrinnggg.
Source? Here you go! That’s according to the INDEC, the Argentine government itself, who just love admitting how young people die under their regime.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t…..F_JSBCdIxg
But say you aren’t a rich old fart but a young rich snobby prick instead with a trophy wife and a couple spoiled brats. What about schools? Seems that I didn’t research that well enough. Stupid me here I am in Northern Ireland: I should have contacted these people and move to Salta instead. Instead of sending my kids to a free public school that has both top world class education as well as Christian values being taught daily, among the top ten schools that end up sending pupils to Cambridge University, the ¬#1 University in the planet for 2010 and 2011, I should have sent my kids to a public school in Salta, where Kirchner gives kids…. drums please…. A netbook!!!! … In provinces where 83% of homes don’t have internet access!!! JAJAJAJA!!! I could also end up in Salta capital city where after paying 500USD for a private school my kids would at least learn to read and write properly, along with a mediocre general knowledge level compared to most first world nations and a view of the world narrower than a Llama’s but hole, but that’s just too far away from the Super Dooper Rich guy retreat.
But what the heck! Lets cut it out already and take a look at your new neighbors! Outside the walls of the country club walls! (better build those walls high!)
See?! They LOVE living in contact with nature, who needs roofs, water, electricity, toilets. These are the rich, intellectual people this David Gland mentioned in his newsletter.
Hey, what about Chaco, the province next to Salta? Actually Chaco has a higher life expectancy than Salta so lets take a look there.
feature=related
Ok… but you know what, you see poor hungry people, I on the other hand see slim intellectuals. How much money does it cost in LA to lose THAT much weight? All that open space and fresh air, low population, fresh food products. Besides, how can you NOT feel good about yourself, snobby, golf playing rich you, when you’re surrounded by such misery and poverty. See? It all work out great towards achieving the Estancia Cafayate lifestyle.
But FerFAL, quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think
What I think about all this charade? I don’t have a problem with people making money. I like money a lot myself. I love the capitalist system that allows you to make money.
You know what I DON’T like? People that lie and trick others with BS. That’s why I spent some of my precious time replying to this bunched up panty fit of hysteria the guy that wrote the article bashing me obviously had.
Wrapping it up folks, since I have to go have dinner with my wife and kids. I didn’t mean to harm anyone’s business and I very much doubt I did. These people are smart and could sell ice to Eskimos, or property in Cafayate as a good lifestyle idea. They are just looking for ways of making even more money. Its up to each one to get as much information as possible. Then you have no one to blame but yourself if you fall for it.
Take care!
FerFAL
8:15 pm
March 13, 2011
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FerFAL, Casey says the murder rate in BA is a third that of Chicago's. Does that make sense to you or is it more "el poopo del toro," if my Spanish is correct?
8:39 pm
August 25, 2010
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Well, hes not showing any sources, is he?
Another factor to consider. Say 20 people get murdered each day in LA and 20 people get murdered in Bs As each day. Whats the nature of those crimes?
Keep in mind the following, there's no, none, zero, nada, no gang activity in Argentina.There's no colors, no Latinos killing Blacks, or blacks killing asians, or whatever. 99% of the people killed in Argentina are true crime vicitms, except for some occaisonal drug deal went worng here and there. SO you see, the number in LA may mean that half the crimes that take place there are of a nautre that doenst affect you, while the one that represents true victims does.
The kind of crime seen in Buenos Aires is much worse than any city in any first world country, that's obvious and clear for anyone that cares to look.
FerFAL
12:20 am
August 6, 2011
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I'm going to venture to say that FerFal and Casey are both biased heavily in their perspectives and their respective business ventures.
The answer lies somewhere in the middle.
I believe Casey is pushing his business down in Argentina and did not give enough of a contrarian view, but I also think that as they pointed out, FerFal perhaps has not seen enough of the world as the Casey crew. Let's just say that even if I had the money, I probably wouldn't buy a place down in Estancia.
I've lived in five countries, been robbed in Central Asia and in urban America (at gunpoint).
I currently live in Mexico and the worst that has happened to me was someone broke into my house while I was on vacation and took my already broken laptop.
1:04 am
July 7, 2011
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These people are selling property in a country club in an Argentine province called Salta, pitching it as a high society, wine sipping, polo playing paradise, and selling houses …… in a dirt poor province, within an already unstable third world country with a president similar to Chavez……if you’re an old snobby fart that feels better surrounding yourself by some of the most awful misery in South America while you sip wine
FerFal
I never wanted to move there until you laid out the sales pitch….
I've always thought part of the draw for folks going ex-pat was to live like feudal lords among the serfs. Crushing poverty seems to be the norm across the globe and it's depressing as hell to see it 1st hand.
A lot of places Americans ex-pay too is like moving to the best neighborhood in Detroit; sure you can buy a great house for cheap, but it is still in Detroit. There are good reasons for Americans to go ex-pat, like returning to your ancestral homeland, looking for a decent wife, avoiding alimony, and the IRS but past that… No thanks. I've seen way to much of the world.
"SO you see, the number in LA may mean that half the crimes that take place there are of a nautre that doenst affect you, while the one that represents true victims does." FerFal
another very good point people don't pick up on.
5:43 am
August 25, 2010
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Hi Number six, in my lifestime I've lived in:
Buenos Aires, Boston, Cordoba (and Argentine province, not that different from what Doug Casey is trying to sell)and a few months in Barcelona.
I've backpacked the southern part of Argentina down to Tierra del Fuego, traveled to every province.
Countries I've been to:
USA
Canada
Uruguay
Chile
Paraguay
Brazil
Bolivia
Spain
France
England
And I'll tell you something else, this elitist snob, he has very little contact with reality so I dont care if he visit every country in the planet 100 times.
For people like him, they just see what they want to see, or what's in their best interest.
If going to Salta floats anyones boat, go for it, same thing for living in any other crappy 3rd world location.
Everyone and their uncle knows about Salta and Cafayate, beleive me, good ol' Dug didnt discover anything special. Its not even the nicest place or the smartest place to relocate to within Argentina, just happens to be the place where he got a good chunk of land for a very good price. It would make 1000 times more sense to chose San Martin de los Andes, or somewhere close to Bariloche where you have abundance of water and other natural resources. SAlta has got to be one of the worst choices, even witihn Argentina. And moving form USA to Argentina is simply stupid.
FerFAL
10:50 am
March 30, 2011
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Backup for FerFal here.
It is a form of madness to move to something like salta without good reason.
What is a good reason?
One would be you are a wanted criminal but you got enough millions of $ so you can bribe your way into argentina. However you could do the same thing in bolivia cheaper and better.
Another one would be you want to avoid payments for your ex and the kids. I dispise you for that but well again there are better place you could do the same.
Another one would be you plan on entering the bolivia-chaco drug trade. Where cocain from bolivia meets marihuana from paraguay to be shiped into BA/brazil.
This would perhaps be a viable plan if you are that kind of criminal.
Another one would be the need to buy yourself a few slave wifes that you can get for cheap and lock in a shank somewhere close so you can have your pervert daydreams come true. You can do that. But not the local indios are called "guaranii" what means "warrior" and if they find out about your hobby they might come and kill you. Paraguay has got one of the highest rates of murder because of their tradition to settle things their way.
So to sum it up only pervert criminal would benefit from this choice.
Now lets be fair and take a look at the "sucky" reasons to move there:
You are smart and you see the greatest depression coming to your home this year or the next. You want to go to the middle of the desert, keep your standard of living and smile on those fools in europe and the US who have to endure civil war and high rates of unemployment/poverty.
Congratulations! You are smart enough to see whats coming but too stupid to do the right thing. Do you really want to sit in the middle of a desert when your U$ becomes ex-world currency and the US goverment will impose capital controls, cutting you from your assets/income?
No problem you say? You will just bring 10 bars of solid gold and hide them in the desert. When the day comes you will then go digging and buy half or argentina? Good plan really. Will be a fast way into the afterlife for sure.
Dont even think about bringing gold/silver buillon to south america – leave that in swiss/singapore.
I could go on about how retarded the idea is but I guess who did read so far and not got the point wont get it anyways.
10:51 am
June 7, 2011
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1) Different people have different criteria for evaluating real estate.
I have no interest in Thailand but a pedophile might find some low income
areas there most congenial.
And the only reason I could ever see for having
resort hotels on the lunar landscape of Cabo San Lucas (tip of Mexico's
Baja California peninsula) is that Hollywood liked being close to the
drugs –and congenial policemen — of Sinaloa.
Similarly, some rich men have always liked shagging the household help.
Look at California governor Arnold Schwartznegger.
2) When wealthy men talk about "escaping oppressive government" they
of course are only talking about any legal constraints that would affect them personally. These same people would cheerfully have the US Congress draft US citizens to die in wars to protect the wealth of the 1%. For some people,
political philosophy is just a way of dressing up selfishness and tax evasion.
3) If the US economy ever declined to the point that we could not maintain
world order, the libertarians would find that the Pax Americana on which they depend would disappear. As would rapid global travel and rapid transfer of capital.
You did not hear Casey's claptrap back when Soviet Communism was a threat.
Che Guevara would have kidnapped Casey and shook him down like an ATM machine.
I for one would cheer any mob of peasants who took down a petty feudal lord
after the airports closed.
10:58 am
June 7, 2011
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1) Ah — I see that Maldek reached conclusions similar to mine.
Great minds think alike. : )
11:20 am
July 7, 2011
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some has never had an ex-wife take 70% of his wealth and still git alimony
11:57 am
June 7, 2011
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1) Attack of the zombie, flesh-eating divorce lawyers, you mean. Aye — there be a REAL disaster. Worse than piranha, they are.
2) One approach is take a voyage on an Italian cruise ship, grab a life preserver and jump off when it is near land. Just look at the 28 souls still missing from that wreck near Tuscany, heh heh. Law firms don't chase the estates of people legally declared dead if the known estate is discovered to be small.
12:08 pm
June 7, 2011
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See, e.g , http://abcnews.go.com/US/vanis…..x2TkW8S2Ps
"In the last two years, 41 people went overboard or went missing on cruise ships, according to CruiseJunkie.com, a cruise watchdog site. The cruise industry reported that nearly 15 million passengers traveled on cruise ships in 2010 alone."
1:55 pm
March 18, 2011
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Okay, here's my take on Casey (as discussed with Fer during a hike through a mountain swamp in a gale yesterday).
Casey "Research"? So he's running a university or something? Very scientific but then you see his hypothesis concludes that you should, if you are wealthy enough, make a financial commitment to his business venture. So how's this for a scientific study project: am I going to take impartial advice on the subject of buying land in Argentina from a guy who has a vested interest in selling me property there, or am I going to take it from someone who gains zero economic benefit no matter what my decision is?
These guys wish to offer a solution to the fears of wealthy westerners in light potential fallout from the present and ongoing global economic mess, i.e., inflation, civil unrest, currency failure, maybe even hyperinflation and USD collapse followed by martial law and anarchy. Well, if it gets that bad in the USA, what kind of impact do you think that will have in the rest of the world, especially places like Salta? Does anyone think the golf clubs, the irrigation systems, the wine-tasting events, etc, etc will continue uninterrupted, while the outside world goes into meltdown?
The attack on FerFAL was particularly petty, resorting to spiteful conjecture about his travel experience and social bracket, and taking cheap shots at his book and blog, backed with not one word of evidence. Whatever. People daft enough to listen to such peddlars of hot air will get what they deserve.
2:57 pm
June 7, 2011
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1) Ferfal's book was above Amazon's 1000 best selling rank for over a year –
and above 500 for a while. I suspect Ferfal made more than a "meager income".
2) And if we want to talk about a "run-of-the-mill survivalist book" then why
not look at Casey's "Crisis Investing" — which advertises how you can find
"Profits and Opportunities in the Coming Great Depression".
Only problem is: the book was written in 1983 — almost 30 years ago. Anybody
see that Great Depression hit in the late 1980s-1990s? I seem to recall the US stock market making enormous gains in that period — whereas Casey's recommendation (Gold) fell from around $800 to $200 or so.
You could have joined a religious commune and taken a vow of poverty and still not have taken it in the shorts as badly as the fools who took Casey's investment advice in the 1980s.
But if anyone wants to examine this great classic, Amazon has 58 copies selling for 1 cent (US) each.
3:37 pm
March 30, 2011
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Add-on: Just realized how many spelling errors my earlier post has. Sorry about that. It seems reading the bullshit Mr. D. C. wrote about FerFal made me angry.
If there ever was an evidence required that this man is talking crap to the sole purpose of selling his overpriced land – he did it best himself.
Please go read his ranting like "blog made with the sole purpose of promoting a book" -> Guess what? FerFal made the blog YEARS earlier.
Or this gem "living in a bombed-out slum in Chicago". What a nice guy! So FerFals modest home in one of the better areas of BA has now become a bombed-out slum! For a man (D.C.) who claims to have seen it all, it seems he should visit one of the many "Villas" sometime soon, best at night, to further educate himself? I am pretty sure he will have a good time in there.
Ohhh and I found even MORE fascinating lines form this guy; here is another one:
"no one with any other option would leave serious money in an Argentine bank… but that’s a detail, not a problem."
Well my friend, it is not….unless you plan to move there as a retreat in times of turmoil. Over the past few millenia (yes that's 1000s) the first thing goverments from ancient rome to feudal kingdoms to modern days have invented is *** capital controls ***.
Of course for you that is only a minor problem. For the elderly guy with the fixed monthly income out of his IRA on the other hand this "minor issue" might become a "starve to death" situation.
Haha and now my last statement for today, because after reading his shit again I do need a beer or two now.
"I couldn't find a more agreeable country"
Are you sure you have looked well enough? I did my own research back in the day before we moved down here to south america and my short list was:
Paraguay (for reasons that do not apply to non-native german speakers)
New Zealand
Uruguay
Chile
Swiss
Austria (I was born there)
Canada
Singapore
Australia
rural USA (got good connections to the US for a long time, but my gut feeling tells me something ugly is coming in the years ahead so only 10th place on my list. If Texas was a sovereign nation it would have made #1)
The places I would avoid in south america would be
Venezuela (Hail Mr Chavez!)
Argentina (a good 2nd place in the badlands list!)
Bolivia (Chavez-klon in power)
4:08 pm
January 23, 2012
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Hi, having visited both Cafayate and San Martin de los Andes + Bariloche, I can say that San Martin and Bariloche are beautiful, with lakes, green fields and mountains, the houses are mostly alpine style and both areas feel very safe.
While Cafayate is in a desert area (dry, dusty fields), when you move away from the main square the town is mostly rundown and very poor, not the type of place you would want to walk around on your own or after dark.
Having been to about 100 countries, mostly backpacking or overlanding (travelling in a big truck and camping along the way) I can say that places like New Zealand or Australia would be 100 times better than Cafayate!
6:07 pm
March 18, 2011
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@ Don Williams: Did you read any of the reviews on Amazon of that Doug Casey book? Here's one excerpt from a 2002 review:
— EXCERPT —
The theme of this book, and indeed of all three of his books, is that:
1 – mankind cannot devise a government worth having.
2- that any government will eventually debase the currency making gold the only solution for those who wish to conduct commerce, and…..
3 – that the masses of humanity, so ignorant and incapable of learning from historical mistakes, will only be a burden on the "producers", as articulated in Rand's "Atlas Shrugged".
From this societal malady, only one solution can be rendered; that is to nsulate oneself from the onion breathed multitude through isolation in a Switzerland-style redoubt in i.e. the rocky mountains, in a modern day "Galt's Gulch". It is there that our modern day "dogs of war" will protect our producers from those who would steal their possessions.
— END OF EXCERPT —
Does anyone else think Rawles has been reading Casey?
9:37 pm
August 6, 2011
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Alright, I've been edged more toward FerFal's perspective.
It does make sense, Casey lives in another world and the attack made on FerFal was unwarranted and not very civilized. The arrogance and high-mindedness just oozed out of that "contrarian" article (which, by the way, didn't have much on the contrarian point of view). They could have taken the criticism in a healthier manner.
What I don't like about Casey is his Godlessness, and his obsession with Kurzweilian transhumanism. There is also a bit of a cult of Casey. Sure, the guy has made good economic (not spiritual) choices, but even with his transhumanism padding on a few years, he will still meet his maker.
Anyways, good luck on your new surroundings FF. Be sure to fill up on the Guinness.
12:13 am
July 7, 2011
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yea Don, that's it. In the USA, men have no legal standing in family/ divorce court. My number one, absolute best bit of common sense advice for single American men in preparing for hard times is not to get married. Divorce is the most common disaster scenario in the USA; and the one where the govt is most stacked against you. and my ex didn't get nearly as dirty and vicious as the allows women to behave
10:01 am
June 7, 2011
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@cryingfreeman
1) There actually is a cult along the lines of Casey, although he is not a leader. The cult is PT (Perpetual Traveler) which attempts to evade the duties of citizenship by spreading activities across multiple countries –the Five Flags theory. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P…..l_traveler.
2) My father served in the Korean War, almost died in a Korean POW camp, and is buried in Arlington Cemetery after decades of service in the US Army. So my impulse on meeting PTs is to blow their heads off with a shotgun. Unfortunately, a deeply oppressive government blocks my right to legitimate self-defense.
3)I have no problem with people emigrating from one country to another but I am strongly opposed to the USA allowing citizens to have duel citizenships in other countries. I think you owe loyalty to whichever nation protects you as a citizen –because some of your fellow countrymen will have sacrifice their lives to protect you and your freedom. The PTs are parasites , freeloading on the
sacrifices of others.
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